Yesterday Havi opened the much anticipated Shiva Nata Secret Lab. There was much excitement in the lad of the Shivanauts (and the ShivaNuts). 
Inside the revolving door of the Secret Lab are all the formulas for Levels 4-7 plus much other goodness. Reading through the site, I was struck by something.
All the formulas are numbered.
If you’ve used Andrey’s video to learn Shiva Nata, this will come as no surprise. That is how he teaches it. Seeing all the numbers, however, made me wonder if my brain is wired a bit differently.
You see, I don’t use numbers. I simply memorize the pattern and then repeat that.
So, for Levels 1 &2, my mantra is: forward, backwards, forward/backwards, backwards/forward. And, repeat.
For Level 3, I think: forward, mirror, forward/backwards, transquarter. And, repeat until I return to the starting position.
It seems much simpler to me to just use the pattern versus bother with the numbers. In fact, I use numbers and words to make the practice harder – not to help me learn the pattern.
I’m really curious about this thing I’ve just discovered. Am I strange? Do any of you learn the patterns in a similar way? And, what helps you learn new patterns – using numbers, words, following the formula/pattern itself, watching the video, listening to audio of the numbers….?
Happy flailing!
-larisa
I’m totally like you — numbers are the path to confusion, not to learning.
Oh yay! I’m not the only one! Yeah, I’ve found that just following the pattern has worked for me even through L6 – haven’t tried L7 yet so there is a chance that numbers will be needed there…
Btw, visited your ShivaMonster site yesterday (via shivanauts.com). Awesome.
Hi Larisa! Hi Beth!
Count me as another one who seldom uses numbers.
In fact, I only use numbers when I teach, especially when teaching people who are not used to mind/body practices – there is something reassuringly familiar and predictable about numbers (even though we all know that “familiar and predictable” is but an illusion, in life in general and in Shiva Nata in particular!)
I think I’ll start saying the numbers out loud for L1 & L2, for an extra challenge on days when I find myself relying a bit too much on muscle memory alone. We’ll see where that leads…
Hi Emmanuelle!
So great to see you here! Thanks for adding to the discussion. Yes, absolutely, me too. I totally use words or numbers when teaching – just generally not when I’m learning a new pattern myself.
Hi! Having just signed up for the Secret Lab, but not yet having access to it, I decided to do a search and see what other people are saying about Shiva Nata right now… because I want to connect! I’m all giddy and stuff! And I really like the topic of this post, so I’m replying! (Warning: I think I have a bit of mind-melt going on from my recent practice, sparked by the suggestion in the Welcome to the Secret Lab email, and I think my word order is a little strange right now.)
Anyways, I’m totally a mathy person, and so I’m pretty gung-ho about the numbers. I always associate the positions with the numbers, and today was my first time associating the positions with something else: words. I think I was actually assigning the words with numbers, and the numbers with positions. Or, since the words were written on paper, I was associating the order of the words on paper with the numbers 1 through 4, and then associating them with the positions. If that makes sense.
So, with the new practice I just did with words instead of numbers, it feels like I’m trying to use a new crutch, which can help me learn the patterns and flow better. The words had me stumbling a few times, but the order of them on the page (and thus the numbers associated with that order) helped me check and understand better. More connections between more things probably means there is more going on to befuddle me, which is what it’s all about, right?
Anyways, I’ve been realizing that the numbers only really help with figuring out where I am, and whether I am where I’m supposed to be. The numbers aren’t all that good at helping me see where I’m going, though after I figure out which way I’m going, I use the numbers to check whether that’s right. The “where I’m going next” information, which is usually just applied from the starting position and not thought about until the next time I’m at the starting position, is absolutely stored in my head as forward, backward, forback, backfor. But then I always find myself using the numbers to check that I’m doing the right thing!
Anyways, yay! That’s about all I’ve got left to say.
Interesting! You mention that you ‘associate the positions with the numbers.’ I think my brain works the opposite in that I tend to associate the numbers with the positions. The positions are what are totally hardwired into my brain at this point. Super intriguing distinction (assuming I understood you correctly). Thanks so much for sharing your process. I love hearing about different approaches to this stuff.
Yes, I think you do understand me correctly.
However, the positions are hardwired into my brain too, but it’s like they are stored in little boxes in my head with the names 1, 2, 3, 4. Interestingly, since I’ve been calling the horizontal and vertical positions by the same names (and not, like, H1 vs V1), I found it surprisingly easy to start following along with Level 2. I haven’t spent enough time with it yet to learn the pattern consciously yet (still struggling with endurance, actually), but my subconscious keeps surprising the heck out of me by how well it handles the different planes with different arms.
Level 1 feet still trip me up though, but maybe once I get better with the feel of the connections between positions, without thinking about numbers, I can pay more attention to what my feet are doing without losing what my arms are doing.
Now I’m wondering if our different “mental storage” methods have unique strengths and weaknesses that challenge us in completely different places! And I’m getting even more excited about the Secret Lab, where we’ll get to interact with all sorts of people who learn in all sorts of different ways!
Yeah, I totally get what you mean about the positions being stored in little boxes. Great description, btw! That is part of what has been so challenging for me over the past couple of weeks – as I’ve been focusing on flow. It’s been difficult to shift my attention from the boxes to the space in between them. Difficult but decidedly awesome as well.
Hi guys, I actually had an argument with andrey about more or less the same thing, whether the names of the positions are important or not. (likewise the names for the movements.)
Personally, I think to create a mind body connection its helpful to have some way of distinguishing the positions and movements, even more helpful if the labels are distinct. After that anything goes. I went through a stage of saying the movement and then doing the movement and seeing where I arrived at. Then I practiced saying the movement and the position that I would end up at, then I went through a stage of just saying the position.
Knowing where I was going, as Qrystal says, I could check when I got there.
One thing I do agree with Andrey alot on, he suggests seeing the position you are going to before you go there. Then you can move your arms really quickly. Even quicker is that while you are moving your arms you can sense or think about the move that is coming next. You can really get flying. I think that is the key to flowing.
Way to wrap it all back around to flowing, Neil. Nicely done.
And yes, I totally see the position before I move to it – I think that may be a big part of why the numbers/names aren’t so important to me. I just hold the next position in my mind and then go there with my body. And sometimes, my body gets there first and there isn’t really any mental energy involved at – that’s when I know I’m really in the flow.
Or, that it is time to move on to something harder…